Mr John

Proverbs 17
The beginning of wisdom is to fear/revere the Lord.
I might understand how you could look down
on the earth and say there is no God, but how could you look up and say there is no God.
You may have wisdom of the world, but what will that get you.
You will still end up in a casket with your flesh turned back to dust.
EZK 18:4
God owns all souls.
You would do good to consider what He will do with yours.
In reality you do believe in God, it’s yourself.
You believe you were just lucky enough “Really? lucky enough” to just be here, for what?
To fill your stomach, dress your body with goodly raiment, drive fancy cars and do your own will?
I say you are the God. I say knock yourself out because it will end.
Apparently you’ve never lost someone you love, to believe their life had no purpose except for what I stated above is truly lacking wisdom and any concept of something higher than you.
I will pray for you because believe it or not, like or not, deal with or not you are a child of God.
May God give to you more time to realize that, before you go to your rightful place.
You might read Psalm 22.
Jesus words on the cross, written 1000 years before it came to pass.
– Donny


Quoting (Proverbs 17) & (EZK 18:4) is a fallacious argument from authority, also known as “appeal to authority” or, in Latin, argumentum ad verecundiam.  Although certain classes of argument from authority do on occasion constitute strong inductive arguments, arguments from authority are commonly used in a fallacious manner.  You are asserting that your holy text is divine without reason and until you can substantiate your holy book is any more authoritative that the myriad other supposed holy books written by man, your argument fails.

You asked “how could [I] look up and say there is no God.”  I do not claim to know that there are no gods.  I hold the position that there is no good evidence to think or assume that gods exist, the null hypothesis.  Looking up at night and failing to understand what you see does not justify a supernatural explanation, that is an Argument from Ignorance; and just because you have no clue what you are looking at does not mean that someone else hasn’t already discovered the answer.

What does the “wisdom of the world” get me?  Let us see if I can name a few things off the top of my head; electric power, nuclear power, solar power, a cure for polio, a cure for small pox, penicillin & numinous other vaccines, x-ray photography, the internal combustion engine, light speed communication, but that is just scratching the surface.  Now what exactly has religion gotten us beyond empty promises of a magical theme park after death; all for the low-low price of the complete abnegation of reason and logic?  Yes, we all end up in a casket but how selfish of you to think that all of man’s accomplishments are meaningless because those who discovered them later died.  The men and women who discovered those things left a better world for the rest of humanity.  They accomplished feats which no priest or holy book could manage during 10,000 years of religious incantation and prayer.

Your assertion that “God owns all souls” is fatuous on its face.  You have yet to provide evidence of gods or souls.  There is no evidence of a big brother in the sky.  It is a horrible idea that there is somebody who owns us, who makes us, who supervises us, waking and sleeping, who knows our thoughts, who can convict us of thought crime, just for what we think, who can judge us while we sleep for things that might occur to us in our dreams, who can create us sick, as apparently we are, and then order us on pain of eternal torture to be well again.  To wish this is to wish to live as an abject slave.  It is a wonderful thing that we now have enough information, enough intelligence, and I hope, enough intellectual and moral courage to say that this ghastly proposition is founded on a lie and to celebrate that fact and I invite you to join me in doing so.

You next assert that I “do believe in God, it’s [me]” but fail to explain how you could know my thoughts.  Coming from someone who actually knows, it is my mind after all, I can tell you unequivocally that I am not a god and I possess none of the attributes required to meet the definition.  You are presenting a false dichotomy in that if one does not worship something outside themselves then they must worship themselves.  You fail to realize a third position, the complete absence of worship.  I do not worship myself nor do I wish to make myself a slave, especially towards your unfounded invisible and mute dictator.

You reference “luck” as if chance plays some role in our existence.  The chance of you or I being here is %100.  The event of our birth has already occurred.  Your question is as meaningless, like asking, “What are the chances that Lou Gehrig would get Lou Gehrig’s disease?”  You then ask why we humans are here, but that presupposed that there must be a reason.  Your belief that you are so special and necessary to the workings of the cosmos is nothing short of hubris.

As a matter of fact, I have lost people I cared about, please stop being such a presumptuous pinhead.  My lacking a credulous belief in the afterlife does not equate to their life lacking any meaning; they raised families, they loved, provided, protected, and taught.  There life was in no way meaningless and they were all important to others who loved them.  This is what I mean, religion has indoctrinated you to think life’s meaning comes from nothing but adulation for a mythical deity; how pathetic.  You speak of possessing wisdom, but asserting invisible deities or “something higher” without evidence is the antithesis of wisdom.  We are the custodians of life’s meaning.  We long for a Parent to care for us, to forgive us our errors, to save us from our childish mistakes.  But knowledge is preferable to ignorance.  Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable.  If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal.

If you are comforted by closing your eyes, talking to yourself, and surrendering your free mind to the dictates and claims of charlatan priests, that is your problem.  I reject your still unfounded claim that I am a “child” of any deity.  If you wish to surrender yourself to the master-slave mentality required by religion then that is your prerogative but I will have no part of your delusion.  I am in no way the property, possession, or plaything of your imaginary being.  I emaciated myself from the wish-thinking and credulous blind faith demanded of the magical claims in holy book.  I do not recognize the self-proclaimed authority of mere humans, including you, who claim to know the desires of a deity whose existence they refuse to logically substantiate.

You wrote of my “rightful place” but why not just come out and say what you mean, Hell.  I do not think you realize how wicked you sound when make such statements.  You say, “Look, you have been made a perfectly fair offer, we know your thoughts and we can torture you for eternity if we want; for the crime of being born in sin.  All you have to do is throw yourself on our mercy and it will be OK.”  I always have the chance to sprawl, grovel, beg and plead, and I might get off; the essence of totalitarianism.  You would have me believe that I am created incurably sick and then ordered on pain of death and eternal torture to be well.  This is not morality; it is the most refined picture of cruelty and stupidity possible.

Maybe you should read Psalm 22 and not just take what your pastor tells you on faith.

The piercing of the hands and feet is referenced by Christians as being a prophecy about Jesus’ crucifixion, where his hands and feet were pierced by nails. However, contrasting the two verses in the JPS and KJV give radically different results – the former states that the Psalmist’s hands and feet are mauled by dogs or lions. The latter states that the assembly of the wicked has pierced the Psalmist’s hands and feet. This is a translation issue, specifically over the word ari, or lion.

In Hebrew, the verse reads karah ari yad regal. Literally, mauled lion hands feet. Or, the lion mauled my hands and feet. The KJV, and virtually all Christian translations, completely ignores the word ari. It’s easy to see why they do that – because it significantly alters the context of the verse. If we’re talking about lions mauling the Psalmist rather than the Psalmist being pierced by some unknown entity, then it’s clear it doesn’t refer to Jesus. Fabricating messianic prophecy via incorrect translation is a modus operandi of Christians today and has been throughout history.

On a final note, this Psalm, in the style of most Psalms, is metaphorical. We know David was never mauled by lions, just like Jesus was never mauled by lions. Christians may try to use that as an excuse for why it doesn’t refer to David. At the same time, they will selectively interpret verses as being literal that fit their agenda while interpreting verses that don’t as metaphorical. This is a fallacious double standard. If we interpret each verse as literal, there are quite a few that refute the belief that it is a prophecy about Jesus:

Psalms 22:13-14 “Many bulls surround me, mighty ones of Bashan encircle me. They open their mouths at me, like tearing, roaring lions.”(JPS)

Was Jesus surrounded by the strong cattle from Bashan? Did they attack Jesus? Interestingly we see another reference to lions as well, enforcing the metaphor throughout the Psalm.

Psalms 22:15 “My life ebbs away: all my bones are disjointed.”(JPS)

Were Jesus’ bones disjointed? This would actually contradict another common proof-text used by Christians, which claims a fulfilled prophecy on the belief that Jesus never had any broken bones.

Psalms 22:26 “Because of You I offer praise in the great congregation.”(JPS)

Jesus never did this. In fact, the Gospels portray Jesus as rejecting Temple life.

Psalms 22:31 “Offspring shall serve Him; the Lord’s fame shall be proclaimed to the generation to come.”

Jesus, according to Christian tradition, had no offspring.