the day you and your science are able to create one human cell is the day you will win this argument (about god).

what say ye?

glad to see you used a word like inspiration . i thought that word was only in the christians dictionary.

back to that one human cell business,get busy. you have the challenge and your work lies ahead.

make me an xesit by having your science do so

one egg + one sperm = you or I

isnt creation great? call your supporters. you need them. no paste and cut.

speak from your heart only

thirdum wordum 7-19-1918


thirdum wordum,

Your comment breaks down to the following argument.

  • Premise One: Living cells exist.
  • Premise Two: Scientist cannot now create living cells.
  • Conclusion: God made living cells.

This is another classic argument from ignorance, a fallacy with which you appear to be very familiar.  You likely find this kind of spurious argument very useful when convincing credulous people to accept your magical faith claims; I know I did when I was involved in apologetics.  The difference between you and I is that I stopped espousing such arguments once the fallacy was revealed to me, you simply continue on dishonestly as if you are still ignorant of this fact.  It is an argument from ignorance because you are claiming that the ONLY origin of a living cell is supernatural and you do so because you are ignorant of any other method with which a cell could originate.

Your argument falls under the larger category labeled the “God of the gaps”; a theological perspective in which gaps in our scientific knowledge are taken as evidence or proof of God’s existence.  Such an argument is sometimes reduced to the following form:

  • There is a gap in understanding of some aspect of the natural world. (Origin of life)
  • Therefore the cause must be supernatural. (Your God!)

One of the most glaring problems with your argument is that, even at face value, it can be used to justify belief in an infinite number of gods.  If you were a Muslim you could claim Allah made living cells and so on and so forth.  Your argument only gets you as far deism.  You still have all your work ahead of you to show that this creator is not completely indifferent to humans.

With regard to your challenge, this might sound unusual coming from a non-believer but even if microbiologist did manage, with the aid of cutting edge nanotechnology, to create a cell, capable of all the feats required of a living organism, it would not disprove your notion of a creator.  The enigmatic creator described by most theist as being space-less, timeless, and immaterial, is completely un-falsifiable.  The creation of living cells in a laboratory would in no way falsify your assertion of a creator.  You could always move the goal post and claim that we were simply created with the intelligence to copy your god’s original work.  Theists have always moved the goal post when advances in knowledge have displaced their magical answers and there is no reason to suspect you will not continue that tradition when your specific challenge has been met.

Your demand that science make you an atheist is laughable.  Science is derived from the application of logic to objective facts found in the natural world.  Religion rejects facts and reasoning in favor of faith.  As facts and reason are necessary components in the application of science, any attempt to persuade you with science will fail.  So long as you deny reason you will remain trapped in your delusion.

You are correct, one egg and one sperm will produce offspring.  It is interesting to note that your knowledge of the existence of human gametes is a result of scientific inquiry and not divine revelation from your god.  Religion taught for thousands of years that it was the man who planted his seed inside the woman, that women were merely vessels for male reproduction and were to be treated as chattel.  Now you sit at your keyboard making magic claims while appealing to the very secular scientific knowledge your religion suppressed with fear and torture; all while still making fallacious arguments for your particular god; the nerve!  Why not crack open your bible?  Why not appeal to the claims made in your magic book?  Oh, that’s right; we already know that the myths and legends in that text have been debunked.

Creation is hardly great; a child can recognize the flaw in your statement instantly, IT IS UNFOUNDED.  You have presented absolutely no evidence for your claim.  “God made us!” you say.  OK, next question, what made god; and what made that; and what made that; so on and so forth.  Say hello to Mr. Infinite Regress.  Now, you avoid this obvious problem by committing the fallacy of special pleading, also called a double standard.  Conveniently, everything that exists requires an act of creation up until we arrive at your god, which for some unexplained reason does not require a creator.  Supernatural creation is not “great”; it is absurd and an affront the intelligence of the very minds that you seek to enslave.  Occam’s razor disposes of such problems, there is no creator.

The following was made by a Christian regarding an ongoing discussion concerning the FFRF and Whiteville, Tennessee.

perhaps people have tired of your rants and untruths. perhaps they do not care to debate you any longer.
perhaps they are realizing there is no need to debate you as the battle was won long ago. you lost.

and perhaps they know that the xeists will never shut up until they close their eyes in death and, perhaps they have realized your are a very small minority and in all honesty really dont matter.

and perhaps they realize that while you are all brilliant you are absolute snobs and stuck up and feel all those who do not believe as you are low lives. and lastly perhaps they no longer have time to play with a bully who is incessant in the manner that he posts and cuts and post links to other sites to firm up his misguided beliefs and apparently lacks the mental and emotional strengths to ever have faith.

thirdum wordum VII 9-25-1919

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/whiteville-tn/TIABM3INCTHN9HJ3O/post2467


thirdum wordum VII,

I have not grown weary in the least, rants are OK with me but I do prefer that they have substance; a quality rarely found in the rants which are religious in nature.

Maybe they do not care to debate any longer but that is merely a tacit admission of defeat, an abdication of an untenable position that the supernatural exists. We graciously accept their surrender and ask that they now consider emancipating themselves from the mind forged manacle of a celestial dictatorship.

Their may indeed be no need to debate, what other action can you undertake when all of your arguments have been dismantled and shown to be blatant logical fallacies?

Your claim that religion won the battle long ago is a bit arrogant on your part and shows a complete lack historical understanding. In the debate concerning the age of the earth, the origin of the human species, the cause of disease, the rotation of the earth, the orbits of the solar system, and the moral rightness of slavery,(just to name a few subjects) Christianity lost every time. Your spurious claim that Christians have won any debate is simply laughable. All assumptions must be critically examined; arguments from authority are worthless; whatever is inconsistent with the facts must be discarded or revised. We must understand the Cosmos as it is and not confuse how it is with how we wish it to be. In every instance Christians lost and were forced to capitulate to the facts as revealed by science.

You statement that a very small minority equates to being incorrect is yet another fallacious argumentum ad populum (Latin for “appeal to the people”). It is logically fallacious because the mere fact that a belief is widely held is not necessarily a guarantee that the belief is correct; if the belief of any individual can be wrong, then the belief held by multiple persons can also be wrong.

I am sorry that you have convinced yourself that we are snobs and stuck up. Our intentions are to persuade you to question why you hold the proposition of a god to be true. Our goal is to show you, via the Socratic Method, that belief in magical entities or anything which is based upon the claims of another human without evidence is unnecessary. Our goal is to dismantle every spurious claim with which you were indoctrinated. Claims later used to coerce you into surrendering all your reasoning faculties for the faith mentality of an abject slave.

We do not feel that those like you, who believe in magical sky wizards and undead Jews, are low lives. You must remember that most of us were once under the same delusion as you are now. I personally spent many hours debating against non-believers but in the end, after educating myself on Aristotelian logic and absorbing all the truly wonderful discoveries concerning how the natural world really works, reason prevailed and I had to reassess my own position. I realized that there really was no legitimate reason to accept the magical claims of holy books and was repulsed when the true nature of faith, the antithesis of reason, dawned upon me.

We are not bullies, you have been programmed to think that we are your enemy, we are in reality your friends; we speak out because we want everyone to be truly free; free to think for themselves without fear that an invisible monster will torture them for eternity. There can be little liberty on earth while men worship a tyrant in heaven.